Christian Grim & Mary Morgan - Person Sheet
Christian Grim & Mary Morgan - Person Sheet
Misc. Notes
See entry for Ralph II de Somery; chronologically the marriage between Ralph and Margaret FitzGilbert does not work.1668
Foundation for Medieval Genealogy: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY...rshalMWilliamCrassus
MARGARET (-after [1242/43). The Complete Peerage names “Margaret m 1stly Ralph de Somerey, 2ndly Maurice de Gaunt” as the first daughter of John FitzGilbert “the Marshal” and his second wife[1514]. From a chronological point of view, this cannot be correct. The births of the children of John FitzGilbert and his second wife can be dated to [1145/55]. Concerning the alleged first marriage, the chronology suggests that the children of Ralph de Somery and his wife were probably born in the late 1190s or the early years of the 13th century. Concerning the alleged second marriage, Maurice de Gant presumably married his second wife in the hope of having children, and in any case Maurice’s wife is recorded as living in 1247. As can be seen, none of the dates is compatible with Margaret having been the daughter of John FitzGilbert. The Pipe Roll 1210 records that "Margareta que fuit uxor Radulfi de Sumeri" arranged to pay an instalment of her fine for the assignment of her dower in midsummer[1515]. Henry III King of England granted "maneriis de Cantokesheved et de Hivis...que fuerunt Mauricii de Gant quondam viri sui" to "Margarete de Sumery" dated 1231[1516]. m firstly RALPH [II] de Somery of Dudley, Worcestershire, son of JOHN de Somery & his wife Hawise Paynell (-[Jan/Jul] 1210). m secondly (after 1220) as his second wife, MAURICE de Gant, son of ROBERT “Juvenis” de Berkeley & his wife Avice de Gand (-1230).]
**This appears to rule out Margaret Marshal as the wife of Ralph de Somery. If she was born as late as 1155, she would have been 65 when she married Maurice de Gaunt, and nearly 100 at her death. However, The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy has this to say about an unnamed daughter of John FitzGilbert:
daughter ([1145/55]-). John Hunt states that “William le Gros” was married to “a sister of William Marshal I earl of Pembroke”, when recording the marriage contract of the couple’s daughter Margaret to “Ralph Somery” [Ralph [II] de Somery, see UNTITLED ENGLISH NOBILITY], dated to before 1194, but he does not cite the primary source on which the information is based[1511]. A relationship between the Marshal and Crassus families is suggested by two sources. Firstly, William Marshal Earl of Pembroke, writing to King Henry III dated 5 Aug 1224, records that he had sent "dominum W. Grassum primogenitum consanguineum nostrum" with soldiers "ad Enoc-fergus in Ultonia" [Carrickfergus] which was besieged by "Hugonem de Lascy"[1512]. Secondly, the Annals of Worcester record the consecration in 1230 of “Anselmus nepos Marescalli...apud Cantuariam in episcopum Menevensem” [as bishop of St David’s][1513]. m ([1160/70]) WILLIAM [III] Crassus, son of --- (-[1204/14]).
** If a Marshal daughter married William III Crassus (possibly Margaret Marshal), she would have been between the ages of 15 and 20 at marriage. Their daughter Margaret Crassus married Ralph II de Somery before 1194. Even as the fourth child, she would likely have been around age 20 when she married, so the dates work out much better. If true, Ralph’s wife was then the granddaughter of John FitzGilbert rather than the daughter.
Below is the entry from the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy for Margaret Crassus:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMED...CrassusM1RalphSomery
MARGARET Crassus (-after 14 Jun 1247). Her parentage and first marriage are confirmed by a charter [dated to before 1194] under which “William le Gros” gave land at Little Dalby to “Ralph Somery” as part of the marriage contract for his daughter Margaret[2924]. Her second marriage is indicated by two sources relating to Staffordshire, where Ralph [II] de Somery had been granted land by King John (see above). Firstly, King Henry III ordered the sheriff of Staffordshire to permit “Maurice de Gant” to collect scutage from knights’ fees he holds in his bailiwick of the land “he holds in dower of Margaret his wife”, dated [Sep] 1224[2925]. Secondly, the Assize Rolls for 1228 record that eight persons were summoned to show cause why they intruded into “a carucate of land which Alan de Englefeld held, the custody of whose lands after his death belonged to Maurice de Gant and Margaret his wife...the land formed part of the dower of Margaret”[2926]. Alan de Englefield was Margaret’s son-in-law (see below). Several other sources have been identified which name Margaret, none of which makes the connection between Ralph de Somery and Maurice de Gant. Three of these sources clearly refer to the widow of Ralph de Somery: (1) “Roger de Sumeri” confirmed an agreement between “Margaret his mother” and “William de Englefeld” [his nephew, son of his sister Isabel] concerning a grant and exchange of lands “at Bradfield”, Berkshire[2927], undated, but presumably dateable to after Roger’succession to the family estates following the death of his nephew Nicholas (before 4 Jul 1229); (2) and (3) two sets of entries in the Testa de Nevill, Berkshire fees in [1235/36] which include " i.m de i. feodo in Englefeud de feodo de Sumeri et...quarta parte unius feodi Nicholai le Butiler de eodem honore [=honore de Walingeford?] et i.m de i. feodo Margerie de Sumery in Cumton Beucamp de eodem honore et i.m. de i. feodo eiusdem Margerie in Idesleg...et...in Adecote...Watindeden...Stanford...Yngelpenne de eodem honore"[2928], and Berkshire fees in [1242/43] which name "Rogerus de Sumery in Bradefeld i. feodum...Margareta de Sumeri in Bradefeld unum feodum predicti Rogeri...Willelmus de Englefeld in Englefeld unum feodum de eodem feodo"[2929]. Two further sources clearly refer to the wife of Maurice de Gant: firstly, Henry III King of England ordered the sheriff of Somerset, notwithstanding the order of seisin in favour of "Walter de Everm", to give seisin of "maneriis de Cantokesheved et de Hivis [Quantockshead and Huish]...que fuerunt Mauricii de Gant quondam viri sui" to "Margarete de Sumery" as dower, by order dated 1231[2930], and secondly “Margaret de Somery” reached agreement with “Henry de Gaunt rector of the almonry of St Mark’s Hospital, Billeswick” on the tithes of the mill of East Quantoxhead, Somerset and other matters by charter dated 14 Jun 1247[2931]. Two more sources are inconclusive: the Plea Rolls for 1233 include a claim in Oxfordshire by “John de Beauchamp” against “Margery de Sumery, in a plea of land and wardship”[2932], and an undated order, in 1237, records “Assizes taken...in...Worcestershire” from “Margaret de Somery”[2933]. Thomas Stapleton made a detailed study of the life of Maurice de Gant in the mid-19th century but all the sources to which he refers are inconclusive regarding the parentage of Maurice de Gant’s second wife[2934]. It is somewhat surprising that Maurice would have married the widow of Ralph [II] de Somery who, although she had proven her child-bearing capacity, must have been nearly 40 years old by [1220]. Stapleton dates the Margaret de Somery/Maurice de Gant marriage to “prior to the fifth year of Henry III [Nov 1220/Nov 1221] when Maurice de Gaunt paid scutage of Byham for the manor of Bradfield in Berkshire to Percival de Sumery”[2935]. m firstly (before 1194) RALPH [II] de Somery of Dudley, Worcestershire, son of JOHN de Somery & his wife Hawise Paynell (-[Jan/Jul] 1210). m secondly ([1220/21]) as his second wife, MAURICE de Gant, son of ROBERT “Juvenis” de Berkeley & his wife Avice de Gand (-1230).
Foundation for Medieval Genealogy: http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISH%20NOBILITY...rshalMWilliamCrassus
MARGARET (-after [1242/43). The Complete Peerage names “Margaret m 1stly Ralph de Somerey, 2ndly Maurice de Gaunt” as the first daughter of John FitzGilbert “the Marshal” and his second wife[1514]. From a chronological point of view, this cannot be correct. The births of the children of John FitzGilbert and his second wife can be dated to [1145/55]. Concerning the alleged first marriage, the chronology suggests that the children of Ralph de Somery and his wife were probably born in the late 1190s or the early years of the 13th century. Concerning the alleged second marriage, Maurice de Gant presumably married his second wife in the hope of having children, and in any case Maurice’s wife is recorded as living in 1247. As can be seen, none of the dates is compatible with Margaret having been the daughter of John FitzGilbert. The Pipe Roll 1210 records that "Margareta que fuit uxor Radulfi de Sumeri" arranged to pay an instalment of her fine for the assignment of her dower in midsummer[1515]. Henry III King of England granted "maneriis de Cantokesheved et de Hivis...que fuerunt Mauricii de Gant quondam viri sui" to "Margarete de Sumery" dated 1231[1516]. m firstly RALPH [II] de Somery of Dudley, Worcestershire, son of JOHN de Somery & his wife Hawise Paynell (-[Jan/Jul] 1210). m secondly (after 1220) as his second wife, MAURICE de Gant, son of ROBERT “Juvenis” de Berkeley & his wife Avice de Gand (-1230).]
**This appears to rule out Margaret Marshal as the wife of Ralph de Somery. If she was born as late as 1155, she would have been 65 when she married Maurice de Gaunt, and nearly 100 at her death. However, The Foundation for Medieval Genealogy has this to say about an unnamed daughter of John FitzGilbert:
daughter ([1145/55]-). John Hunt states that “William le Gros” was married to “a sister of William Marshal I earl of Pembroke”, when recording the marriage contract of the couple’s daughter Margaret to “Ralph Somery” [Ralph [II] de Somery, see UNTITLED ENGLISH NOBILITY], dated to before 1194, but he does not cite the primary source on which the information is based[1511]. A relationship between the Marshal and Crassus families is suggested by two sources. Firstly, William Marshal Earl of Pembroke, writing to King Henry III dated 5 Aug 1224, records that he had sent "dominum W. Grassum primogenitum consanguineum nostrum" with soldiers "ad Enoc-fergus in Ultonia" [Carrickfergus] which was besieged by "Hugonem de Lascy"[1512]. Secondly, the Annals of Worcester record the consecration in 1230 of “Anselmus nepos Marescalli...apud Cantuariam in episcopum Menevensem” [as bishop of St David’s][1513]. m ([1160/70]) WILLIAM [III] Crassus, son of --- (-[1204/14]).
** If a Marshal daughter married William III Crassus (possibly Margaret Marshal), she would have been between the ages of 15 and 20 at marriage. Their daughter Margaret Crassus married Ralph II de Somery before 1194. Even as the fourth child, she would likely have been around age 20 when she married, so the dates work out much better. If true, Ralph’s wife was then the granddaughter of John FitzGilbert rather than the daughter.
Below is the entry from the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy for Margaret Crassus:
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/ENGLISHNOBILITYMED...CrassusM1RalphSomery
MARGARET Crassus (-after 14 Jun 1247). Her parentage and first marriage are confirmed by a charter [dated to before 1194] under which “William le Gros” gave land at Little Dalby to “Ralph Somery” as part of the marriage contract for his daughter Margaret[2924]. Her second marriage is indicated by two sources relating to Staffordshire, where Ralph [II] de Somery had been granted land by King John (see above). Firstly, King Henry III ordered the sheriff of Staffordshire to permit “Maurice de Gant” to collect scutage from knights’ fees he holds in his bailiwick of the land “he holds in dower of Margaret his wife”, dated [Sep] 1224[2925]. Secondly, the Assize Rolls for 1228 record that eight persons were summoned to show cause why they intruded into “a carucate of land which Alan de Englefeld held, the custody of whose lands after his death belonged to Maurice de Gant and Margaret his wife...the land formed part of the dower of Margaret”[2926]. Alan de Englefield was Margaret’s son-in-law (see below). Several other sources have been identified which name Margaret, none of which makes the connection between Ralph de Somery and Maurice de Gant. Three of these sources clearly refer to the widow of Ralph de Somery: (1) “Roger de Sumeri” confirmed an agreement between “Margaret his mother” and “William de Englefeld” [his nephew, son of his sister Isabel] concerning a grant and exchange of lands “at Bradfield”, Berkshire[2927], undated, but presumably dateable to after Roger’succession to the family estates following the death of his nephew Nicholas (before 4 Jul 1229); (2) and (3) two sets of entries in the Testa de Nevill, Berkshire fees in [1235/36] which include " i.m de i. feodo in Englefeud de feodo de Sumeri et...quarta parte unius feodi Nicholai le Butiler de eodem honore [=honore de Walingeford?] et i.m de i. feodo Margerie de Sumery in Cumton Beucamp de eodem honore et i.m. de i. feodo eiusdem Margerie in Idesleg...et...in Adecote...Watindeden...Stanford...Yngelpenne de eodem honore"[2928], and Berkshire fees in [1242/43] which name "Rogerus de Sumery in Bradefeld i. feodum...Margareta de Sumeri in Bradefeld unum feodum predicti Rogeri...Willelmus de Englefeld in Englefeld unum feodum de eodem feodo"[2929]. Two further sources clearly refer to the wife of Maurice de Gant: firstly, Henry III King of England ordered the sheriff of Somerset, notwithstanding the order of seisin in favour of "Walter de Everm", to give seisin of "maneriis de Cantokesheved et de Hivis [Quantockshead and Huish]...que fuerunt Mauricii de Gant quondam viri sui" to "Margarete de Sumery" as dower, by order dated 1231[2930], and secondly “Margaret de Somery” reached agreement with “Henry de Gaunt rector of the almonry of St Mark’s Hospital, Billeswick” on the tithes of the mill of East Quantoxhead, Somerset and other matters by charter dated 14 Jun 1247[2931]. Two more sources are inconclusive: the Plea Rolls for 1233 include a claim in Oxfordshire by “John de Beauchamp” against “Margery de Sumery, in a plea of land and wardship”[2932], and an undated order, in 1237, records “Assizes taken...in...Worcestershire” from “Margaret de Somery”[2933]. Thomas Stapleton made a detailed study of the life of Maurice de Gant in the mid-19th century but all the sources to which he refers are inconclusive regarding the parentage of Maurice de Gant’s second wife[2934]. It is somewhat surprising that Maurice would have married the widow of Ralph [II] de Somery who, although she had proven her child-bearing capacity, must have been nearly 40 years old by [1220]. Stapleton dates the Margaret de Somery/Maurice de Gant marriage to “prior to the fifth year of Henry III [Nov 1220/Nov 1221] when Maurice de Gaunt paid scutage of Byham for the manor of Bradfield in Berkshire to Percival de Sumery”[2935]. m firstly (before 1194) RALPH [II] de Somery of Dudley, Worcestershire, son of JOHN de Somery & his wife Hawise Paynell (-[Jan/Jul] 1210). m secondly ([1220/21]) as his second wife, MAURICE de Gant, son of ROBERT “Juvenis” de Berkeley & his wife Avice de Gand (-1230).